This topic contains 34 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Captain L 9 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #56716
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    SpartanGlory
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     Everyone knows about Gordon. He’s a tweener forward with perfect size and athletesizm for either spot. His offense is limited, but he led the nation in defensive win shares as a freshmen, and is only second best for a freshmen over the past 5 years according to ESPN.

    I am starting to think that people have begun to unjustly underrate Gordon because of his lack of offensive ability. Granted, the name of the game implies putting the ball in the basket, but if you can stop the other team from doing that, isn’t that just as valuable?

    I think it’s possible that Gordon could be one of the best defenders right out of the gate as a rookie, in the entire league. I think he’ll make multiple All-Defense teams, and probably get a DPOY award. 

    I probably wouldn’t take him over Wiggins, Embiid, Exum, or Parker, but after that I’d say he’s fair game based off his defensive abilities alone. 

     

     

     

      

     

      

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  • #925823
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    he_gets_buckets
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     The problem is we won’t know whether his athleticism will be stand out enough at the NBA level to lock down wings like he did in college, and we don’t know if he will fill out enough to be able to hold his own in the block. There is a lot of unknown variables, and with the recent failures of tweeners in the league(See; Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams, Anthony Bennett and ESPECIALLY Michael Kidd-Gilchrist), I think a lot of teams are wary about taking him. The thing you got to remember is, a lot of people thought Michael Kidd-Gilchrist would be the same defensive player you think Gordon would be, but as we have seen, his broken jump shot has prevented him from reaching his potential.  Gordon is a very intriguing prospect, and I think he will settle into a Gerald Wallace role in his prime, but he is a bit of a risky commodity to take top 6 IMO.

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  • #925692
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    he_gets_buckets
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     The problem is we won’t know whether his athleticism will be stand out enough at the NBA level to lock down wings like he did in college, and we don’t know if he will fill out enough to be able to hold his own in the block. There is a lot of unknown variables, and with the recent failures of tweeners in the league(See; Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams, Anthony Bennett and ESPECIALLY Michael Kidd-Gilchrist), I think a lot of teams are wary about taking him. The thing you got to remember is, a lot of people thought Michael Kidd-Gilchrist would be the same defensive player you think Gordon would be, but as we have seen, his broken jump shot has prevented him from reaching his potential.  Gordon is a very intriguing prospect, and I think he will settle into a Gerald Wallace role in his prime, but he is a bit of a risky commodity to take top 6 IMO.

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    • #926019
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      Ntsap
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      Is a great defender though. He broke his hand . That jumpshot wasn’t going to get better in a season and him breaking his hand this year slowed him developing it. Give him another injury less season before you write him off. 

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    • #926149
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      Ntsap
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      Is a great defender though. He broke his hand . That jumpshot wasn’t going to get better in a season and him breaking his hand this year slowed him developing it. Give him another injury less season before you write him off. 

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  • #925696
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    Lotto Stud
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    Gordon looks like he has too much drive to become a Michael Beasley. He’s a high-energy type of guy unlike Beasley even on the collegiate level. Beasley was just physically dominant but never high-energy. He trots up and down the floor, which is what I hate the most about Beasley.

    As a thread that was posted a while back mentioning Gordon being a force from the PF spot, his best case scenario would be Josh Smith if he ever enters the 250 lb. club.

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    • #925706
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      Hector_Reyes_8
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       Smith is only like 230 why would Gordon have to put on 30 pounds?

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      • #925708
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        Phogify
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        That’s what he’s listed as but I doubt thats his actual weight, for comparison Joe Johnson is listed at 240.

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      • #925839
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        Phogify
        Participant

        That’s what he’s listed as but I doubt thats his actual weight, for comparison Joe Johnson is listed at 240.

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    • #925837
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      Hector_Reyes_8
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       Smith is only like 230 why would Gordon have to put on 30 pounds?

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  • #925827
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    Lotto Stud
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    Gordon looks like he has too much drive to become a Michael Beasley. He’s a high-energy type of guy unlike Beasley even on the collegiate level. Beasley was just physically dominant but never high-energy. He trots up and down the floor, which is what I hate the most about Beasley.

    As a thread that was posted a while back mentioning Gordon being a force from the PF spot, his best case scenario would be Josh Smith if he ever enters the 250 lb. club.

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  • #925710
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    Captain L
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     I agree with Windy City,  I hope my Jazz take him at 5 unless they trade for Wiggins or Parker, his motor, intangables and work ethic make me think he will develop his shot enough to keep the other team honest if not more. There are plenty of players who came into the league and couldn’t shoot but because of their work ithic became good shooters, Malone, Milsap, Griffin, just to name a few.

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    • #925723
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      SpartanGlory
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      I agree. I see more star potential than mkg, and a better attitude an work ethic than josh smith. 

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    • #925855
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      SpartanGlory
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      I agree. I see more star potential than mkg, and a better attitude an work ethic than josh smith. 

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  • #925841
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    Captain L
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     I agree with Windy City,  I hope my Jazz take him at 5 unless they trade for Wiggins or Parker, his motor, intangables and work ethic make me think he will develop his shot enough to keep the other team honest if not more. There are plenty of players who came into the league and couldn’t shoot but because of their work ithic became good shooters, Malone, Milsap, Griffin, just to name a few.

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  • #925762
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    Chilbert arenas
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    Bennett, Beasley, and Williams were not known for their defense but were brought in as offensive players. This will help Gordon overcome the tweener since he can guard 3 positions.

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  • #925894
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    Chilbert arenas
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    Bennett, Beasley, and Williams were not known for their defense but were brought in as offensive players. This will help Gordon overcome the tweener since he can guard 3 positions.

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  • #925800
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    DolanCare
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     I would love Gordon if MKG produced more in the league. I get a little iffy with players like Gordon just because people are giving the praises that were said when evalutaing MKG. 

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  • #925931
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    DolanCare
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     I would love Gordon if MKG produced more in the league. I get a little iffy with players like Gordon just because people are giving the praises that were said when evalutaing MKG. 

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  • #925957
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    celtics1982
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    I like Gordon but not over Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Vonleh, Smart and even Randle.  If he goes above pick 8 it’s too early.  I feel FT% tell you a lot about a shooter and Gordon’s tell you he can’t shoot.  Bruce Bowen was a great defender, yet was nothing more then a role player his whole career.  Now maybe Gordon improves as a shooter, I’m just not betting on it over the top seven players in this draft.

     

    Note on MKG, he’s even worse then I thought.  I was thinking a Gerald Wallace type Career, which I felt wasn’t worth the number two pick.  Now it seems like a long shoot that he’s even that good.  I know people will say Wallace didn’t break out till year 4, but he didn’t play many minutes in this first three years.  MKG has played good minutes and done nothing with them.  I feel this is a perfect example of drafting for need and not best player available!

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  • #925826
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    celtics1982
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    I like Gordon but not over Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Vonleh, Smart and even Randle.  If he goes above pick 8 it’s too early.  I feel FT% tell you a lot about a shooter and Gordon’s tell you he can’t shoot.  Bruce Bowen was a great defender, yet was nothing more then a role player his whole career.  Now maybe Gordon improves as a shooter, I’m just not betting on it over the top seven players in this draft.

     

    Note on MKG, he’s even worse then I thought.  I was thinking a Gerald Wallace type Career, which I felt wasn’t worth the number two pick.  Now it seems like a long shoot that he’s even that good.  I know people will say Wallace didn’t break out till year 4, but he didn’t play many minutes in this first three years.  MKG has played good minutes and done nothing with them.  I feel this is a perfect example of drafting for need and not best player available!

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  • #926004
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    Lotto Stud
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     I personally feel if Gordon is to be put in the best sitaution it would have to be in Utah. He would have Favors/Kanter manning the middle, which would only help his progression to grow from the 3, if the organization gives him free range to learn through that spot and eventually work his way inside in spurts. It’s a win-win situation all across the board in Utah.

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  • #925874
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    Lotto Stud
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     I personally feel if Gordon is to be put in the best sitaution it would have to be in Utah. He would have Favors/Kanter manning the middle, which would only help his progression to grow from the 3, if the organization gives him free range to learn through that spot and eventually work his way inside in spurts. It’s a win-win situation all across the board in Utah.

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  • #926016
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    Whodunit
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     Scout 1: I think he’s Shawn Marion.

    Here’s why I like Gordon, and it’s rare for me (my teams have always been about shooting; you need it to win). It’s simple: Gordon impacts the game without being a shooter. It’s hard to do that. He knows 100 percent what he is. Jabari Parker will take a million bad shots; Gordon already knows he can’t take them.

    In the NBA he will guard 1 through 4. He rebounds, disrupts the glass. Not as great with defensive rebounds as he is on the offensive glass. He can dribble and pass. On defense, he gives you deflections. He dives on the floor, makes winning plays. He only cares about winning. He can switch everywhere on defense; there is a lot of value in that.

    If you get him fifth or sixth, that’s really good. For me to be this complimentary to a kid that isn’t a shooter is rare. He just needs to develop as a representative shooter over time, to at least be a guy you have to put a defender on. I hear he can’t make 3s — who the fuck cares? Sixteen-footer, 33 percent from 3, five years from now? That’s all you’ll need.

     

    (Judging from this scouts words, i think he’ll be just fine wherever he goes simply because he knows who he is and wont try to do too much, just hope other teams know this too)

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  • #925885
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    Whodunit
    Participant

     Scout 1: I think he’s Shawn Marion.

    Here’s why I like Gordon, and it’s rare for me (my teams have always been about shooting; you need it to win). It’s simple: Gordon impacts the game without being a shooter. It’s hard to do that. He knows 100 percent what he is. Jabari Parker will take a million bad shots; Gordon already knows he can’t take them.

    In the NBA he will guard 1 through 4. He rebounds, disrupts the glass. Not as great with defensive rebounds as he is on the offensive glass. He can dribble and pass. On defense, he gives you deflections. He dives on the floor, makes winning plays. He only cares about winning. He can switch everywhere on defense; there is a lot of value in that.

    If you get him fifth or sixth, that’s really good. For me to be this complimentary to a kid that isn’t a shooter is rare. He just needs to develop as a representative shooter over time, to at least be a guy you have to put a defender on. I hear he can’t make 3s — who the fuck cares? Sixteen-footer, 33 percent from 3, five years from now? That’s all you’ll need.

     

    (Judging from this scouts words, i think he’ll be just fine wherever he goes simply because he knows who he is and wont try to do too much, just hope other teams know this too)

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  • #926225
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    celtics1982
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    Why does everyone compare him to Shawn Marion?????  Marion came into this league as a good FT shooter and an ok three point shooter.  Gordon has neither of those traits.  I could care less about him being able to make threes, but the FT % below 50% is a killer.  For a player with his athletic tools, he could make a living driving the lane and getting to the line, but he can’t shoot.  Its the same problem Rondo has, he misses a few FT and then he won’t drive the lane as much or he’ll pass the ball rather then taking the shoot.  Getting him at 5 or 6 is not really good, you’d be passing over players that have ceilings that are about the same as Gordon’s with a much higher chance of reaching them. He should not be drafted before the 8th pick, if he does go before that, its not a good pick, its a gamble that may or may not pay off.  That’s the type of move that makes a GM career or gets him fired.

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  • #926094
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    celtics1982
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    Why does everyone compare him to Shawn Marion?????  Marion came into this league as a good FT shooter and an ok three point shooter.  Gordon has neither of those traits.  I could care less about him being able to make threes, but the FT % below 50% is a killer.  For a player with his athletic tools, he could make a living driving the lane and getting to the line, but he can’t shoot.  Its the same problem Rondo has, he misses a few FT and then he won’t drive the lane as much or he’ll pass the ball rather then taking the shoot.  Getting him at 5 or 6 is not really good, you’d be passing over players that have ceilings that are about the same as Gordon’s with a much higher chance of reaching them. He should not be drafted before the 8th pick, if he does go before that, its not a good pick, its a gamble that may or may not pay off.  That’s the type of move that makes a GM career or gets him fired.

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  • #926273
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    tuck243
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    I think he’s unable to give you anything offensively on the court…  Especially for a young lottery team, I think having him will hinder his and the team’s progression…  You simply can’t go to him at all…  Yes, he’s athletic but he doesn’t finish around the basket that well outside of dunks…   If someone take him, it should be someone like the Kings that will enable him to do what he does best…  They need a defensive goon on their team…  Jazz would be idiots to take him as they need someone who can score…  To be honest, I don’t see anyone in the lottery that would be a perfect place for him to go but the Kings…  The rest of the team that need a low post guy, need a low post guy that can score…

    This also goes to another thread that was created the other day…  I think we get too caught up in potential and we forget about something just as meaningful… A players floor…  I think his floor is Hakim Warrick and he was a better offensive player than Gordon…  That reason alone I’m sorry taking him before any other PF’s like Noah and Randle is just too dumb IMO…

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  • #926142
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    tuck243
    Participant

    I think he’s unable to give you anything offensively on the court…  Especially for a young lottery team, I think having him will hinder his and the team’s progression…  You simply can’t go to him at all…  Yes, he’s athletic but he doesn’t finish around the basket that well outside of dunks…   If someone take him, it should be someone like the Kings that will enable him to do what he does best…  They need a defensive goon on their team…  Jazz would be idiots to take him as they need someone who can score…  To be honest, I don’t see anyone in the lottery that would be a perfect place for him to go but the Kings…  The rest of the team that need a low post guy, need a low post guy that can score…

    This also goes to another thread that was created the other day…  I think we get too caught up in potential and we forget about something just as meaningful… A players floor…  I think his floor is Hakim Warrick and he was a better offensive player than Gordon…  That reason alone I’m sorry taking him before any other PF’s like Noah and Randle is just too dumb IMO…

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  • #926281
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    kobyz
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    defensively he has in him some Dennis Rodman…

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  • #926150
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    kobyz
    Participant

    defensively he has in him some Dennis Rodman…

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    • #926258
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      celtics1982
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      I can see that, not a bad comp actually one of the better ones I’ve seen!!

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    • #926389
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      celtics1982
      Participant

      I can see that, not a bad comp actually one of the better ones I’ve seen!!

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  • #926579
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    Captain L
    Participant

     I posted many times already about how I hope the Jazz take Gordon, I think he gives the Jazz what they need.     5 yrs ago the Jazz took Gordon Hayward and I hated it at first but I soon came to agree with the pick and realize the scouts, coaches, and FO personel have all the films and info to make the right decision,  it is fun to speculate and have personal favorites which I have but in the end I trust that the Jazz FO , scouts and coaches know what they are doing.  Jody Genessy the beat writer for the Deseret News thinks that if the Jazz stay at 5 they are leaning to take Gordon and that would be great with me.

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  • #926448
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    Captain L
    Participant

     I posted many times already about how I hope the Jazz take Gordon, I think he gives the Jazz what they need.     5 yrs ago the Jazz took Gordon Hayward and I hated it at first but I soon came to agree with the pick and realize the scouts, coaches, and FO personel have all the films and info to make the right decision,  it is fun to speculate and have personal favorites which I have but in the end I trust that the Jazz FO , scouts and coaches know what they are doing.  Jody Genessy the beat writer for the Deseret News thinks that if the Jazz stay at 5 they are leaning to take Gordon and that would be great with me.

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