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2013 Nike Hoop Summit Post

mikeyvthedon
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2013 Nike Hoop Summit Post

About to head over to the Rose Garden, wanted to give a small breakdown and maybe some info that people might not have heard yet. Also feel free to use this as a game thread. The game is at 7 EST/4 PST and will be shown on ESPN 2 (sorry Canada, could not get confirmation of whether TSN or Sportsnet were going to show it, even with reps out here).

Here are my predicted starters for each team

World:

Dennis Schroeder

Andrew Wiggins

Sergey Karasev

Livio Jean Charles

Mouhammadou Jaiteh

6-8 in rotation: Dante Exum, Karl Towns, Tomas Dimsa

USA:

Kasey Hill

Aaron Harrison

Jabari Parker

Aaron Gordon

Julius Randle

6-8 in rotation: Andrew Harrison, Rondae Jefferson, Noah Vonleh

Here is my breakdown of the first three days of International practice, so you can get an idea of what the World Team brings to the table:

http://nbadraft.net/2013-nike-hoop-summit-world-team-practice-notes-monday-wednesday

As for the US Team, you should know that they really had only two true practices as compared to 6 for the World (actually, even more as they had some without media). Julius Randle, The Harrison's, Aaron Gordon, Bobby Portis and Kasey Hill were the only players at the Thursday early afternoon practice, which did not go incredibly hard. That was because both coaches, Mike Jones and Cory Alexander, along with Jabari Parker, Noah Vonleh, Rondae Jefferson and Demetrius Jackson were stuck in Chicago due to bad weather. They came in only a short while before the pushed back practice that night.

So, if the World Team did not already look strong enough, they have definite chemistry and play much more as a team. From top to bottom the US is more athletic, but the World has of course the best athlete in Wiggins along with PG's with speed in Schroeder and Exum. Not to mention if Joel Embiid can get in there and stay inside, he will be hard for the centerless US to guard, though I am not expecting a major impact in this one from said big fella.

As for quick thoughts on the US team:

  • Jabari Parker: Has easily been there best player in the practices, highly developed offensive skill set. They have trouble scoring without him on the floor. Could probably stand to lose some weight, but is not a bad athlete and has a good head on his shoulders.
  • Julius Randle: Incredibly strong for his age and could really be tough on offense facing the basket against the slower World bigs (Jaiteh, Towns). He was bothered quite a bit by former Texas player Clint Chapman in the scrimmages when he was close to the basket, though.
  • Kasey Hill: Nice shooter, has been the best PG as far as running a team. Has a little pop, definite toughness and some penetrating ability as well. I have him starting, could be Andrew Harrison, just figure that for offensive purposes, would probably be best to have at least one Harrison on the court, especially if Jabari is not in the game.
  • Aaron Gordon: The athleticism is impressive, he does have energy, but the skill set can use quite a bit of work. His shot is pretty much jacked at this point, he releases on the way down and I do not think he has much confidence in it. He measured at 6-9, just feel he is probably a tad shorter, though his other dimensions were a tad greater than Julius Randle. Minus 36 pounds, of course.
  • Andrew Harrison: Think he is definitely the twin with the most upside and he has played better in practice. I like his shooting mechanics more than Aaron as well. Have Aaron starting as he is "the shooting guard" of the two, just if we are going by practice, Andrew starts with Kasey. Just figure they may want him on the court with Demetrius Jackson.
  • Aaron Harrison: Has been wildly erratic. He can score, he is big and he is a nice athlete, obvious he knows the game. Just seems like at times he tries to do too much, which has led to quite a few bad plays, turnovers. Interested to see what he does in the game, just has kind of shown why Andrew is the more highly regarded prospect at this point.
  • Rondae Jefferson: He may not have close to a complete offensive skill set, his jumper is inconsistent, but man does he have defensive potential. Easily the best perimeter defender on the team, with a 7-1 wingspan look for Jefferson to get minutes trying to hinder Wiggins and Karasev. He is more of a role guy than a star down the line, just has played with strong energy and has annoyed the heck out of people with his defense during scrimmages.
  • Noah Vonleh: Still feel his best days are in front of him, Noah shows some flashes of why I believe he is a likely future lottery pick. His arms are ridiculous, 7-4 wingspan and while I think he may be closer to 6-9 than the almost 6-10 he was measured at, he looks like a stretch 4 with mismatch potential. Could see him playing center in the game and I might think of starting him, but am not the coach. Hits the glass hard and even drained a couple triples in a row during the third quarter of scrimmages to give the US a comfortable lead.
  • Bobby Portis: Another long, pretty versatile player. More of a finesse guy to me, though that is not all bad. Do not think he is 6-11 like he was measured, still should be a combo 4/5 at Arkansas. He has a really low release point on his shot, so it is not really pretty and will likely need some work. As the tallest player on the team, look for him to get some minutes to combat the size advantage of the World's three headed monster at center.
  • Demetrius Jackson: Not a bad athlete, just kind of small (shorter than Kasey Hill in my opinion) and not really much of a standout. He plays hard, have not really seen a lot of distributing ability. Should have some nice time to get ready at the college level behind Eric Atkins and Jerian Grant, looks like a 4 year guy.

My prediction is the World winning 95-84. Should be a great game regardless, having fun watching it and I will be sure to hit back with more info following the game!


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This isnt even televised in

This isnt even televised in Canada....

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an internet link please

an internet link please guys???

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Can we take a moment to

Can we take a moment to appreciate the absence of any Greeks.

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Thanks for the link, just

Thanks for the link, just seen Parker hit a nice jumper, anything stood out so far?

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Dennis Schroeder is legit.

Dennis Schroeder is legit. Very nice floor general with speed and length.

Karasev is a nice looking shooter who can get to spots on teh floor and has a quick, soft release.

Livio Jean-Charles looks like a tweeer, but a good one. Active, long, athletic, defends and has a nice looking mid-range jumper.

Jabari's taking some dumb quick shots, which is a trend that I noticed from him this yr. His shot selection has gotten worse.

Andrew Harrison dribbles A LOT. He needs to learn how to beat a zone other than trying to dribble through it.

The difference in execution b/t these two teams is striking. As long as this format stays the same, I'd give the edge to the World going forward. Even if Team USA has more talent, they're HS kids matched up against pros. These foreign guys just know how to play when they're not the focal point of a team. Can't say the same about the US kids.

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Jabari ended the half well,

Jabari ended the half well, cant wait for this year's college season to start.

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...

Jabari struggled early on because the PG over-dribbled. But he is ridiculously good. Plays with great pace and makes winning plays. Just watch him. And I'm not so sure Wiggins is better than him. I do not see a lot of skill in Wiggins' game. A lot of athleticism. I will keep watching. hopefully I'm wrong.

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The world team is very good.

The world team is very good. The point guard on their team seems legit. Jabari Parker is beginning to heat up. Jumper is falling now.He is finishing off plays as well.

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Who's that Word Team guard

Who's that Word Team guard from Germany, really quick, the commentators mentions he favors his right hand?
Looks insanely quick with the ball.

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Dennis Schroder. He just

Dennis Schroder. He just declared for the 2013 draft. I haven't seen too much of him, but he looks really impressive from what I have seen. Elite quickness.

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These US bigs don't even box

These US bigs don't even box out.

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God this is terrible to

God this is terrible to watch, too much dribbling in traffic, to me Parker and Schroder are the most impressive.

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Parker....just knows how to play...

I'm sorry. You can be in love with 40 inch verticals and impressive speed...but the kid knows how to play.

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Randle is having some issues

Randle is having some issues finishing plays, but his footwork looks good. His game looks like it projects to college and the NBA well, when teams can space the floor. His first step is super quick, his off hand is really, really good for a young player, and he looks like he is just a born scorer. As long as he continues to attack the basket throughout his career, I expect him to be something special. I'm probably hyping him up too much, but I like his game as much as anyone in this game.

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He needs a consistent

He needs a consistent mid-range J in the worst way. Every time he catches the ball, regardless of how far his man is off of him, he looks to put the ball on the floor.

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Honestly, I like that much

Honestly, I like that much better than if he looked to shoot from the perimeter first. He has time to work on his jumper, but I like that, unlike some scorers, he doesn't just look to shoot from the perimeter. Too many face-up 4s become too reliant on their jump shot (Al Harrington, Michael Beasley). And he has made a couple nice jumpers this game.

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Observation on Wiggins...

....He absolutely is useless with his left hand. Everyone is forcing him left and he always comes back right. I know the kid is a freaking athletic gift but his athleticism is making people say he is better than Parker when what they mean to say is he is more athletic.

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Parker

Parker is the only player on USA that is playing with effort. The Harrison brothers are weak. Nobody on USA can shoot the ball other than Parker.

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The collective bball IQ of

The collective bball IQ of these US kids is just sad.

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Parker wasn't playing bad

Parker wasn't playing bad because of over dribble by Andrew he was just taking quick bad shots he is Gunning 6-17. Andrews dribbling is what has helped USA because no one else seems to know how to beat a zone, Andrew is getting in the lane at will against the zone and either scoring or getting fouled. You have seen what happens when Hill or Jackson get it, they only know one speed and that zone hurts them where as Andrew is shifty and patient while also able to get it to the open man once he gets in the paint.

Randle has issues against zones because its not one on one but even with that he has about 15 pts and 7 reb.

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People who know...

Understand what I am saying. If you heard the commentators they discussed how the USA team has the ball sticks. The Harrison PG was the biggest culprit. And those who play know that when a PG dribbles too much then it interrupts rhythm. The World is moving the ball while team USA is over-dribbling. Most of Parker's shots were good shots. Randle is another kid who plays with great effort and energy but is a little selfish. Doesn't pass it often once he catches it. I would have loved to see William-Goss in this game instead of some of these PG's.

I have no reason to be biased for or against any of these kids but the Harrison twins have poor body language and appear to have an entitled type attitude. Just my observation.

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Some observations

It's kinda annoying how much the announcers talk about Parker even while he's on the bench and the World Team is blowing them out.

Aaron Gordon can't do much with the basketball. He tries but he's not there yet.

Jean-Charles is a very versatile defender. He seems to be able to guard the perimeter and the block with the same ability.

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I'm not feeling the Aaron

I'm not feeling the Aaron Gordon hype at all. He's just an athletic, energy guy. Skill-wise he really doesn't do much well. Even his footwork is awkward. He's had a couple of travels called on him just because he has bad footwork.
If he knew how to play he'd play like Jean-Charles is. Now this kid isn't all that skilled either, but he knows how and where to move. He's scoring easy buckets just by being intelligent, active and keeping things simple.

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I think we may all agree that

I think we may all agree that Parker is still better then Wiggins. Wiggins is just a freakish athlete. Does he have skills? Yes for sure but not on the level of Parker. And parker can run the floor and get up on the rim easily as well just not as easily as wiggins. His step back jumper is a thing of beauty. His passing and handling at 6'9 240 is also nice to see. The Harrison Bro's pound the ball on the ground to much.I hope cal gets that out of their game. Randle is a bull,his explosion with his first step and leaping is pretty nice and his footwork a good asset. The world team has some high level prospect as well. Joel embiid needs a lot of work. The Dennis kid is good and Dante Exum is a kid to keep an eye on. He may get taller and longer. He was 6'4 last August and now he is 6'6 and still has a baby face.

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Considering it hasn't looked

Considering it hasn't looked like Wiggins is trying at all and still outscored Parker (who's been chucking) I completely disagree.

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To suggest Wiggins isn't trying is foolish...

And 6-8 of his points were run outs. He isn't being aggressive because he can't get to his right hand. If you have recorded this game chart his drives. Team USA is sitting on his right hand and he can't get to the rim. All of his points were points created for him in transition.

Even in the full court with them forcing him left he always comes back right. And everytime he goes right and is cut off he spins back left.

Honestly the best player for the World has been the PG and not Wiggins. Stop the "he ain't even trying" act. Lol! Come on man. He's not trying in front of scouts?

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Does it matter where his

Does it matter where his points came from? He's scored almost 20 points without having to resort to chucking (Parker not so much). And yeah it looks he hasn't tried for a large portion of the game. Look no further then a few minutes ago where Demetrius Jackson got that layup because he was sprinting and Wiggins was jogging. He's stood around on offense half the game too. I'm not saying Wiggins has played great because he hasn't but Parker hasn't either. I also agree the PG has been the best player, but to suggest Wiggins is only a good athlete and Parker is the better player is nonsense, he produces just as much on far better efficiency.

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Chucking vs. Missing

There is a distinct difference between taking shots and missing and chucking. I'm not sure you would find many people who would agree with you that Jabari Parker chucked. Chucking is done by players who only care about scoring and are selfish. He isn't a perfect human being/player and thus he may have taken 1 or 2 bad shots but chucking?

And again you are not understanding what I am saying about Wiggins. In the half court his ball handling is below average and his jump shot isn't consistent.

People are in love with his athleticism. Don't sell us all this "Lebron talk" when he was a complimentary player today.

And no it wasn't because he wasn't "trying". Parker did not shoot it well today although he had some good looks.

And I will also note that Wiggins played with a PG who set up his team instead of dribbled the ball in one place for 10 minutes before deciding what to do with it. There are 20 posters in this thread who have discussed the Harrison twins ball domination. You are the only one who can't see it.

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Are you kidding? I'm like the

Are you kidding? I'm like the 3rd person in this thread to mention his shot selection so clearly others noticed and agree. The first three shots I saw him take were all rushed or unnecessary, he just happened to make one of them. I am listening. I understand Wiggins doesn't have a great handle...but he still outplayed Parker today regardless. I don't know how you can say Parker is better when he was outplayed regardless of him having a better handle or not. It's hilarious you say I'm the only one who can't see it in regards to something I haven't mentioned at all when you are actually denying that Wiggins wasn't going all out for a large part of the game. Talk about irony.

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The way people talk about

The way people talk about Jabari Parker you would think he has no weaknesses. When Shabazz Muhammad takes lots of shots he is an aimless chucker, when Jabari Parker takes lots of shots he is a cold hearted player who will do anything to win.

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Shabazz....

Shahazz is considered selfish because in half of the almost 40 games he played this past year he ended the game with 0 assists. That is why he is selfish.

And it's not shot attempts that make you a chucker or not. It's the type of shots you take and whether when a better shot is available do you make an attempt to make the correct pass.

Parker did that tonight. His shot simply wasn't falling.

If you watch Muhammad and Parker player and you know basketball you understand that there is a distinct difference between how they think and play the game. Not even close.

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I just made the comparision

I just made the comparision to show how the media seems to love Parker way too much and as for people thinking Parker is a better player than Wiggins honestly that is just nonsense, Parker is more skilled as a scorer but he is not the better player, Carmelo Anthony is a more skilled scorer than Lebron but in no way is he a better player.

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Who cut Andrew Harrison's

Who cut Andrew Harrison's hair? that kid has hella bald spots.

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Is it me or does Parker seem

Is it me or does Parker seem like a kid that would stay 2 years at Duke instead of 1 and done?

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Parker is just smarter than

Parker is just smarter than the other players on the US team. He hasn't shot it great but only 3 of his shots have been bad ones. 2 were at the end of the shot clock but the kid is good. Rivals is dumb having Gordon ranked above him. No real skill. I think the world killed them on the glass but the selection of the US was bad. No true centers to rebound and no pure shooters. Also in my opinion Nigel Williams Goss is the best decision maker and winner in the class and should have been on this team.

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Parker is more skilled than

Parker is more skilled than Wiggins but Wggins played better, he let the game come to him and regardless how he got his points he still got them without forcing the issue. Parker played well but he was chucking shots almost every time he touched the ball. He didnt do much different than when Bazz played last year and scored all those points but gunned the whole game.

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Parker actually has a nice

Parker actually has a nice shooting stroke. Reminds me of Carmelo's mid range game.

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I'm hearing comparisons

I'm hearing comparisons Schroeder like Rondo. Draft stock is mid first round after the game.

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How did Wiggins do?

How did Wiggins do?

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My impressions of the Game

Just missed the 1st quarter (hopefully it will be uploaded on youtube), so this is just from what I saw:

Julius Randle was forcing it sometimes, but he definitely looks like the best iso/post scorer in the class. Great upfake, great first step, decisive with the ball, can go left or right, always attacks the rim. He needs to learn how to box out and play defense, as he tends to lose track of his man and over help, but I get the sense most of his flaws are very coachable and that he will look better when he gets in a more structured college offense rather than the offense of all star games. Honestly, he is my favorite pro prospect in this draft class.

Jabari Parker clearly has a very nice package of skills. His finish high off the glass on the spinning layup from the high post was particularly impressive. He also played with great energy all game and moved very well without the ball. Have a hard time seeing him bust, although he will have to prove his ability to attack the basket off the dribble in college, which I expect he will do.

Andrew Harrison has an impressive array of tools. He can handle really well for a big guard, has pretty nice court vision and has a nice looking jumper. Right now, though, he needs to work on his PG skills. He sometimes tries to do too much with the ball. He should focus on always making the right pass more often.

Dennis Shroder looks like he has elite speed/quickness, but he threw some risky passes and got a little loose with his handle at times. He sometimes seemed to play too fast. Looks like a little bit of a project, but didn't disappoint.

Livio Jean-Charles did great just being in the right place, right time. Nothing incredible, but he was always in position to score and rebound.

Sergey Karasev showed poor shot selection and didn't seem to make much as a result. Didn't look like a 1st rounder in this game. Maybe he was just trying to show off a little.

Andrew Wiggins had a fairly unimpressive outing. Wiggins athleticism is a elite and he has some very intriguing tools as a scorer, but personally I think he is being overhyped by the media. The comparisons to LeBron James are going to haunt him when he isn't an instant superstar. I think Wiggins is a tremendously talented kid, but, and I know I am in the minority on this, I think Jabari Parker and Julius Randle should each be ranked higher. Wiggins has tremendous upside and shows flashes of great touch and footwork, but he just isn't as skilled right now as Parker or Randle.

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Funny how many people are

Funny how many people are getting on Wiggins even though in a game that defense was played he finished with 19pts 9reb and 4ast. He did it within the offense while not taking bad shots, playing good defense, making the right pass and helping his team to a win. Parker scored more but he might have took double the shots, had less rebounds, worst defense, less assists and a very bad shooting percentage. Wiggins seems to know when he needs to score and when he needs to pass and does so without going one on one constantly or over dribbling.

Lets not do the "throw out what a player has done this year and just focus on the last three all star games en errant the players). Wiggins played a over all more effective game then all of the USA players while winning on top of killing it last summer and during the year. He deserves to be the top dog

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Wiggins took a couple of bad

Wiggins took a couple of bad jumpers too, but did most of his damage how he usually does: transition buckets, o-boards, a couple of 1 dribble slashes and other garbage buckets. Watch any of his HS games and that's pretty much how he scores.
He's not much of a 1 on 1 player and he doesn't over dribble because he doesn't have a good handle. He picks his spots pretty well, but that's not usually how you describe someone who has mercurial talent. I expect more from a player who's one of the most hyped prospects since LeBron. I'd like to see more signs that he has the ability to dominate. That's what future superstars do. Wiggins might not have the temperament to dominate.

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I absolutely agree. Wiggins

I absolutely agree. Wiggins is a tremendous talent, but the expectations are unreasonably high. I think he is going to star in college, but I am not sure that he should be considered clearly better than those generally ranked behind him in the class.

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Great comment

Been trying to tell that individual your responded to what you clearly stated. He hit 1 shot outside of the key... everything else was a layup or dunk. His handle is subpar and as I stated before he cannot go left and if he does he does not go left with any conviction. Even when defenders sat on his right hand he still went right. When he cannot get right he spins back left for a floater. It is a very quick spin but if this is your only offensive move then it doesn't matter how quick it is. Again scouts these days confuse athleticism with "who is better". Wiggins clearly is the best athlete I've seen in a while. But his skill set is underwhelming. Because he is such a freak athlete he will have success on some level because you just don't see that every day.

I wanted to see a move where he can create space. Step backs, pull backs, cross overs, etc. Didn't see it. Just go hard right and spin left.

Park on the other hand has different tools in his tool belt that he can go to to help his team win.

Again Wiggins is a phenomenal talent but he has work to do and as of today I would rank Wiggins the best athlete not the best player in this class.

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watching these all star games

i was wondering the same thing, if Wiggins wants to dominate, is he a blender type of player. Then you got to look back at last summer when he dominated the summer circuit including the highly pubbed games against my guy Randle. The hype could be a burden but he hasnt had any stinkers. He does lack certain skills but thats been the case for a while, hes a dominant athlete that plays within himself. I feel his position at the top is still warranted as you figure/project that his skills can only get better whereas the athletic prowess he has cant really be taught. Same with A.Gordon, hes no way better than Parker but because of his amazing athletism you pressume once he figure it out as they say, hed be a beast

People really gotta let this guy be his own player. The comparison thing is almost a junx or a curse these days.

Parker, I thibk his absence due to injury has just made people forget how skilled a player is.

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Yeah but do you recall Kobe

Yeah but do you recall Kobe in the McDonald's game? 8 points if I'm not mistaken while taking a good amount of shots. Same with TMac. Not all stars have dominated these games. Wiggins did it in more important events like during the season and camps and throughout his career. Fans tend to put way to much in these AllStar games like some of y'all did with Derrick favors and JamesMmicheal McAdoo after they had great games in these events

Siggy
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The Hoop Summit game is the

The Hoop Summit game is the only "All-Star" type game that i even pay attention to. Defense is played and its a competitive game. The mickey d's and jordan classic games don't really mean anything. Theyre glorified streetball games, so i dont really care how players perform in them.

TheLastWord
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Joined: 06/06/2010
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well said ^

well said ^

J_01
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Joined: 04/09/2012
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Does anyone...

Does anyone have the box score for this game?

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