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The 2008 Draft was better then the 2003 Draft

OhCanada-
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The 2008 Draft was better then the 2003 Draft

Im starting to get sick of hearing this wild love affair for the 2003 draft. The 2008 draft was just as good if not better, not Top 5 better but as far as oveall depth goes it was the better draft. Heres list of NBA Pros out of each draft.

2003
Lebron James
Dwayne Wade
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Dvid West
Chris Kaman
Kirk Hinrich
Josh Howard
Mo Williams
Leandro Barbosa
Luke Ridnour
Mickeal Pietrus
TJ Ford
Nick Collison
Travis Outlaw
Dahntay Jones
Carlos Delfino
Steve Blake
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Kyle Korver
Willie Green
Zaza Pachulia
Kieth Bogans
Matt Bonner

2008
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Eric Gordon
Brook Lopez
Robin Lopez
OJ Mayo
Micheal Beasley
Danilo Galinari
Roy Hibbert
Serge Ibaka
Nicolas Batum
George Hill
Javale McGee
JJ Hickson
Brandon Rush
Darrell Arthur
Deandre Jordan
Omer Asik
Luc Mbah a Moute
Anthony Randolph
Jerryd Bayless
Jason Thompson
Goran Dragic
Mareese Spieghts
Mario Chalmers
Chris Douglas Roberts
Courtney Lee
Ryan Anderson
Alexis Aijinca
Sonny Weems
Donte Green
Bill Walker
Semih Erden
DJ White
Joey Dorsey


sammybuckeye13
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'08 is definitely deeper. '03

'08 is definitely deeper. '03 has a better top 10, but the differences in 11-15 are huge:

'03: Ridnour, Pietrus, Ford, Collison Outlaw

'08: Ibaka, Batum, Hill, McGee, Hickson

All those '03 guys were never better than average, 4 of those 5 '08 guys have legit star potential.

Anton123
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It is a bit early to say this

It is a bit early to say this because we still haven't seen what Westbrook, Rose, Lopez, Love and etc. will become. However LeBron, Wade and Anthony are all arguably top 5 players in the league, while Westbrook and Love aren't even probably in the top 10.

I think it is safe to say that the 2008 draft has the potential to be better than the 2003 draft.

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The 2003 draft has freakin'

The 2003 draft has freakin' Lebron, Dwade, Melo and Bosh. The 2008 has Drose, Westbrook, Eric Gordon and K. Love. In no way are they comparable to Lebron, Dwade, Melo and Bosh. Drose is close but not quite, rack up a few more MVP's and then he is there. Love needs to go to another team and start playing some defense to be comparable to those 4. Westbrook needs to shoot better from 3 to get there. And well Gordon is probably on the same level as Westbrook minus the D. None of these players can stand eye to eye with Lebron, Wade, Melo, and Bosh. Not yet but maybe in the future, MAYBE.

Maybe I am wrong about what I said with the 2012 draft being very comparable to the 2003 draft, but potential wise I think it is. We'll see what ends up happening though.

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Forgt to add Augistin, also

Forgt to add Augistin, also who knows these 08 player potential. Rose and Westbrook could end up as good as Lebron and Wade. Lopez could start rebounding which would make him as good as Bosh. Beasley has 25 ppg potential.

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Actaully after taking a

Actaully after taking a closer look I would say the 2003 draft is actaully better but not by much. The 2008 draft still has the potential to be better, just the 2003 draft wasnt untouchable.

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LOL

You make a post, and than retract it upon closer inspection. Still, I can not say I completely disagree. While I think LeBron James will go down as by far the best player in either draft (unless Derrick Rose turns into a ring machine), and that Dwyane Wade and Carmelo Anthony both will probably be among the best of either draft as well, the depth of the 2008 draft was fantastic. It's depth almost rivals 1996. On the pure number of high quality players, 2008 is more than likely going to be a better draft top to bottom.

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During my Lifetime the 3 Top

During my Lifetime the 3 Top Draft Classes are 1984,1996 & 2003..Simply becuz they feature 3 Once in a Lifetime Type of players in Jordan,Lebron and Kobe..Jordan is considered the best ever and Lebron & Kobe seem like they will finish their careers among the 10 best ever to play the game..Those players alone are what Separates them from some other classes.....

And those 3 classes also feature players that have made outstanding Contributions to the game of basketball guys like Hakeem,Barkley, Stockton,Wade,Iverson, Nash and Ray Allen

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In my eyes i believe draft

In my eyes i believe draft depth is more important than a few quality players then a load of duds. The 08 class may not have as many superstars but have more quality players

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How could you possibly forget

How could you possibly forget Darko? I'd say he's really what puts the 2003 class over the top.

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These dude really said Rose

These dude really said Rose and Westbrook could end up as good as Lebron...SMH

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You make a post, and than

You make a post, and than retract it upon closer inspection.

Im ust not dumb enough to argue a point I agree I was wrong about Mike. When Anton said "However LeBron, Wade and Anthony are all arguably top 5 players in the league, while Westbrook and Love aren't even probably in the top 10." I thought about that, agreed with it, and retracted my statement.

Its like the Carmelo anthony trade, Denver got more depth and short term security but overall New york got Carmelo anthony a superstar. 2008 has more overall depth, but 2003 has the best players.

As of right now the 2003 daft is still better, yet the 2008 has plenty of time to harness their potential and I think they will be the better class when its all set and done. Not yet thou, but it is very very close. People still should not be sayin the 2003 draft is by far the best, and it is very debatable that 2008 is a better draft now.

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I appreciate the point about

I appreciate the point about how good the 2008 draft is, but no it isn't comparable to the 2003 draft. Not in the top 5, not in picks 10-15, and not even later in the draft. First, Lebron is so good that a GM would trade the top five guys in the 2008 for Lebron straight up (setting aside making it work on salary cap). Second, D. Wade is so good that a GM would trade any three guys from the 2008 not named Derrick Rose straight up; the gulf is that big. I'm not a huge Melo fan, but the Knicks just traded four guys for him that would be (and in the case of Galo was) a top 15 pick in 2008 if you put them in that draft and knew how they were going to pan out. And that trade was done even with Denver having no leverage.

But I think something else is going on here. I think when you look at the 2008 draft you are still giving those young guys the benefit of the doubt. So 2008 seems awesome because you see guys who might become great. Nick Batum or J. McGee, for example, you are still seeing what you think they can become. Ibaka could become an all-star power forward. Sure it could happen. I've got high hopes for those players as well. But for the 2003 draft you know the ceiling on those second round guys by now. Blake, Hinrich, Pietrus and Barbosa are all guys that a few years ago you might have thought they were going to become very good starters in the league. They all started but now we know that they have no chance of being good NBA starters and certainly not All Stars. Five years from now a lot of those guys that you think gives "depth" to the 2008 draft, they aren't going to be in the league anymore. While I think everyone you listed in the 2003 draft is still in the league and many are still contributing. So the 2003 draft was particularly top heavy in a way that 2008 can't touch, but it was also deep.

M-DYMES
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"First, Lebron is so good

"First, Lebron is so good that a GM would trade the top five guys in the 2008 for Lebron straight up"

NO, NO, NO, NO, damn that is just stupid.

I'm sorry I would never trade Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, OJ Mayo, Russell Westbrook, and Kevin Love straight up for LBJ. Some of the comments on this site just seem to get dumber and dumber as the day goes by. You would mortagage 5 great young players, including the MVP in Derrick Rose and a guy who just set the Double Double streak since the merger, for LBJ who hasn't even won a ring yet? That's how you get fired as a GM. Until LBJ wins a ring going 1 v 5 for the entire game, I'll take a cast of those 5 guys over him anyday. Basketball isn't just a one man game.

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Uhh, you get Lebron on your

Uhh, you get Lebron on your team, you pay him $20 million a year, then you can recruit and have money left over for ANY free agents you want (see Miami Heat). No one is saying you have Lebron run out there and play one on five. Love all those young guns you mention, but yes Lebron is that much better than all of them and he is young enough that age isn't an issue (though it is in your favor with the young guns). Okay Lebron doesn't have a ring. But mainly it turns out he has been busy turning a D-league team (see Cleveland) into 60 wins a season. None of the other players you mention can do that.

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I dont think Rose will ever be as talented or

as physically gifted as Lebron, but that doesnt mean he might not go down as a greater player. If Lebron doesnt win a couple championships or even one (highly highly unlikely) and Rose gets a legit SG and this Bulls team turns into a Dynasty then Rose could at the end of the day could go down as the better player.

But I dont know why that matters no one can predict the future but as in terms of what the 2008 draft class has accomplished so far It wouldnt be a surprise at all if they end up passing the 2003 draft class. I think the best odds of them doing that is Through Rose and Westbrook winning some titles in their future, and obviously stopping the Heat who have 3 of the main players from the 2003 draft class.

M-DYMES
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Uhh, you get Lebron on your

Uhh, you get Lebron on your team, you pay him $20 million a year, then you can recruit and have money left over for ANY free agents you want (see Miami Heat)

SEE MIAMI

Exactly, look at who you can sign and who wants to sign for sure. Odds are the guys you are bringing in and can sign aren't nearly at the same level as those 5 players listed. Plus they are all young and are relatively low as a salary hit. Plus now that they are on your team, you can pay them under the hard cap (current CBA) and have more money to go towards paying their future contracts.

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The problem is people

The problem is people overvalue Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, carmelo Anthony etc. Everyone has a role in the NBA. Everyone is supposed to have a defining role at least. Some have more then one priorities within that role. Can someone tell me Lebrons role? He does everything good nothing great. Rose is a better scorer, better leader, eqaul distributor, better winner, and those are defined roles that he can bring to the table anytime. Lebron has struggles scoring in the clutch (this is not a debate it is documented this season and just true), he rebounds way better then Rose great, playmakes great, and plays wonderful defense at a level Rose cannot even compare to, but he is not a go to scorer. He definitely is not a dominate leader because he doesnt do the things leaders do on a consistant night to night basis. He is still the best talent in the NBA, he brings the best package and is the best player, but what people have to understand is in a team concept players have to play roles. Rose plays his role alot better then Lebron plays his NOW and I say this because as the leade rof his team he is confident in his abillity to make that big shot, he takes those big shots, and he makes those big shots. Rose has just barely scatched the surface on his potential. Yes i definitely think he could be better then Lebron one day, but it starts on the defensive end. People have to understand stats do not make a players value, how they play within their role, what kind of teammate they are, etc needs to be taken into consideration as well.

M-DYMES
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"Can someone tell me Lebrons

"Can someone tell me Lebrons role? He does everything good nothing great."

"Lebron has struggles scoring in the clutch (this is not a debate it is documented this season and just true), he rebounds way better then Rose great, playmakes great, and plays wonderful defense at a level Rose cannot even compare to, but he is not a go to scorer."

Hate to be a dick, cuz i love any LBJ thread that brings him bac to humanity, but we got a couple contradictions there.

But I agree with you. LBJ needs to get some tiger blood in his veins, like MJ, Kobe, and now Rose clearly have. The day he finally does, the NBA is gonna have a whole new animal to deal with.

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Hahaha my bad but you know

Hahaha my bad but you know what I mean. He is the "best" player in the game but there is nothing he does better then anyone is in the league. He isnt a better scorer then Melo/Durant, he isnt a better rebounder then Howard/Love, he isnt the best overall defender, he isnt a good post player, he isnt a better leader then a Nash/Bryant, he isnt a better plaaymaker then Rondo/Williams etc.

He does play great as an overall game, but does nothing "the best". How can he be the best player? The best all around player maybe.

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If Lebron had that Tiger

If Lebron had that Tiger blood he would probally become the best player ever. That kind of blood is very very rare.

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Miami isn't killing it, but

Miami isn't killing it, but they are heading for a 55+ win season and that is going to be their floor for the next three years unless someone gets injured. I predict that they are going to tear it up in the playoffs as well. And besides just because you can have any free agent you want once you get Lebron doesn't mean you will pick wisely. You might pull a Bosh instead of picking Amare (and rest assured, Lebron gets to pick). And they could have waited a season for D. Howard.

As for salary, if you have those five guys, you are basically done or will be once they get past their first three rookie year salaries. If you have Lebron, you can sign him for seven years and and always have room for more talent. I'd take Lebron, D.Wade and then I'd pass on Bosh and get Amare or wait a year for D. Will or D. Howard. Or maybe I wouldn't even get another max guy, instead I'd pick up two or three years of top mid-level free agents.

Agreed, Lebron doesn't have a go to jump shot move. But he still has ranked as the number one offensive player for the last four years. Look at the playoffs where he regularly flirts with a tripple double and gets you 30+ points on an efficient 50%+ shooting. He is a monster. He isn't superb at last second shots, but really the game shouldn't even be close at the end if you have Lebron and talent.

Rose has a nice role, but lets consider that the Bulls win with team defense and Rose has been shooting about 40% since the All-Star break and it doesn't seem to really matter. You could replace Rose with about five other point guards in the league (Rondo, West, CP3, D. Will and Nash) and you could argue that the team would be just as strong. Can't say that about Lebron can you?

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TallmanNYC makes some good

TallmanNYC makes some good points.

Rose is immensely overrated/overhyped right now. The Bulls ceiling is the ECF.

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You could replace Rose with

You could replace Rose with about five other point guards in the league (Rondo, West, CP3, D. Will and Nash) and you could argue that the team would be just as strong. Can't say that about Lebron can you?

The only player who can do what Rose has been doing in Chicago is Russell westbrook (arguably).

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Doing exactly what Rose is

Doing exactly what Rose is doing, yes Westbrook is best matchup. But would you still win just about the same number of games with any of those five point guards, I think you would.

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Jammin-Lemon

Rose is immensely overrated? You are immensely retarded...

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That's like comparing two

That's like comparing two teams. One with the elite player, couple good, and mostly role players. The other has 3-4 all-stars/boderline allstar players, but none are top teir talents. Rather deep bench as well.

Which one do you typically choose come playoff time?

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Onion: are you saying

Onion: are you saying All-Stars aren't elite players?

Which team do I like in the playoffs this year? I like the Heat to make the finals out of the East. The playoffs get them to gell and focus. But the Lakers beat them for the Championship.

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Rose is immensely

Rose is immensely overrated/overhyped right now. The Bulls ceiling is the ECF.

M-DYMES, wanna add this to your collection of ridiculously stupid comments?

Seriously tho...I am Not a Love fan, not a Beasely fan, and OJ Mayo has fallen off the face of the earth. BUT a Rose-Westbrook-Mayo-Beasely-Love team would be more valuable than Lebron as a single entity.

Rose isnt that far behind Lebron, and this IS NOT DEBATABLE. Rose is a much better winner than Lebron. When the chips are down, he always finds away to pull through (i.e. last night, plays pretty bad for the first 46 minutes, comes up with a huge and 1 and a in your face 20 footer to seal the deal). Lebron has more talent. Duh. Lebron is CRAZY talented. But Rose has the natural "I always come through in the clutch" in him. Dont just look at stats or figures. Look at how Rose has carried that team. Theyve beaten every elite team in the NBA. The last time they lost to an elite team was like December 3rd vs Boston.The reason they get over all the other good teams is cuz of him. Lebron's great for a full game, but when its crunchtime, he doesnt have the go to move.

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Hey MDymes, while you are at

Hey MDymes, while you are at it you can add this too!

"Rose is a much better winner than Lebron"

And UnkleBuckshot- Thanks for that, but makes you seem very immature to say im rearded and not even add anything useful to the post...

Some of the people on this site are rea a-holes for no good reason, sorry I offended you with my opinion buddy...

Can you guys honestly say that these Rose threads haven't gotten like really really riiculous in the past few days?

M-DYMES
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OK guys Imma make a thread

OK guys Imma make a thread for it.

Well have the following thus far...feel free to remind me of others...

Allen Iverson's white brother, Colt Iverson

Lockout is a good thing, maybe I get College Hoops 2k12

"First, Lebron is so good that a GM would trade the top five guys in the 2008 for Lebron straight up"

Rose is immensely overrated/overhyped right now. The Bulls ceiling is the ECF.

DNYCE trade discussions

....etc.

OhCanada-
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LOL^^

LOL^^

OhCanada-
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Rose isnt that far behind

Rose isnt that far behind Lebron, and this IS NOT DEBATABLE. Rose is a much better winner than Lebron. When the chips are down, he always finds away to pull through (i.e. last night, plays pretty bad for the first 46 minutes, comes up with a huge and 1 and a in your face 20 footer to seal the deal). Lebron has more talent. Duh. Lebron is CRAZY talented. But Rose has the natural "I always come through in the clutch" in him. Dont just look at stats or figures. Look at how Rose has carried that team. Theyve beaten every elite team in the NBA. The last time they lost to an elite team was like December 3rd vs Boston.The reason they get over all the other good teams is cuz of him. Lebron's great for a full game, but when its crunchtime, he doesnt have the go to move.

I dont see anything wrong with this statement and Im kind of curious as to why anybody would give it negatives. Could whoever gave it a negative please explain to me what is not a cold hard fact in this statement.

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". Rose is a much better

". Rose is a much better winner than Lebron"

Doesn't seem like a cold hard fact at all to me.

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Can Derrick Rose get past the

Can Derrick Rose get past the first round before we label him a better winner than Lebron and for ppl saying Lebron isn't clutch look at that 2007 pistons game 5 video and tell me that wasn't clutch. Even Kobe never did anything like that.

TallmanNYC
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Saying that Rose isn't that

Saying that Rose isn't that far behind Lebron is not debatable because it isn't even close to true. Rose has had one half of a season (the first half of this year) where you would say he was possibly the best at his position. Last year these were the top five PGs: Nash, Rondo, CP3 (pre-injury), D Will with Westbrook and Rose competing for the last spot. For the first half of this season Rose outplayed them all. Cool. Nice 40 game run. It means something, but you have to keep it up. Lebron hasn't had competition at his spot Small Forward since he joined the league 7 years ago (well maybe at the beginning Paul Pierce was still young enough to be competition and I'm putting Durant at Shooting Guard, so no competition there). But forget position, Lebron has been the best player in the league for the last four years. Come on. If we were picking teams to win a game this year and we could pick from all the players in the league, when would Rose get picked? He wouldn't be in the top ten guys picked because there are too many other good PGs in the league that are pretty much around the same level as Rose.

Then you say Rose is this incredible winner? Did you watch last season? Cleveland won 61 games. Chicago . . . 41. What, he wasn't a winner last year but now he is? 2002 - 2003 the Cavs win 17 games and get first pick in the draft. They take Lebron right out of high school. High school! Next season 35 wins. Season after that 42 wins. It goes up from there. 41 wins isn't something Lebron does now that he is no longer a teenager. Cleveland becomes a winning frachise from then until Lebron leaves. And now they've got 17 wins again. That is a winner. The team which has him wins games.

Guys. Chicago is a great team with a great coach. Rose is a great player. But Chicago wins with defense, depth, and Derrick. Rose is just a part of a great team. Yes he is the part that gets the ball at the end of a close game. Very important, but he has a great team around him that keeps the score low and close. This Rose for MVP stuff is nonsense as is comparing him to Lebron.

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I really cant believe ppl are

I really cant believe ppl are trying to make a case that Rose is as good or can be as good as Lebron....it's not going to happen.

Lebron won 61 games with the sorry Cavailers and he didn't have any all-stars no potential all stars none of that.

Rose has Boozer,Noah,Deng and some decent role players, Rose has a good team his talent just takes them to a whole nother level.

When Rose can lead the bulls to the best record in the NBA with a team like Cleveland in 09-10 and 08-09 then come talk to me.

Lebron is already a top 20-25 of all time player, and some might argue that he is already the 2nd best SF to play the game all this and he's only 25-26?

Rose isn't even a top 10 PG of all time..........He could be one day......Rose is good, but he is not messin wit Lebron...

Rose is 22....did yall forget when Lebron was 22 he AVERAGED 30 7 and 8?

Like have yall forgot who Lebron really is? lol

I understand the clutch thing and all that I do, but to an extent Lebron is clutch he's been to an NBA Final....has Rose? NO

And who did Lebron take to the finals?

O thats right the "average" Cavailers.

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To be fair, the Cavaliers

To be fair, the Cavaliers were in a weak conference, a weak division and a generally weak League when he led them to those records. You had a number of very young inexperienced teams he could dominate, and a number of older teams who were saving energy for the playoffs.

This year has seen a big upswing in the overall quality of play around the League. The West is as deep as ever, Indiana, Memphis are working out, the Knicks are no longer a joke team, heck, even Minnesota is dangerous for an upset on occasion. I can't see Lebron's Cavaliers winning 60 games in the NBA of this season, the East in particular is a lot stronger these days.

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Omphalos

Rose's Bulls are in the weakest division this year.....so wat r u saying? lol

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Okay Lebron never scored 81

Okay Lebron never scored 81 points in a game or won a title but Kobe did..

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You're right, the Bulls have

You're right, the Bulls have taken an advantage of a weak division, but the rest of the East is quite strong. Bulls also have a great record against the top teams, which there are more of in the current climate.

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During the 1st month of the

During the 1st month of the regular season Chicago went 0-5 against the five other current division leaders Boston, Miami, San Antonio, Oklaholma City, and LA. Since then they have gone 7-0 to improve to an overall record of 7-5 on the year. so lets not say they are just feeding off weak competition within their division. Bulls are 24-7 against Western Conference teams as well.

Miami is 4-8 against division leaders including being swept by Derrick Rose and the Bulls. They are below .500 against .500 or better teams, the leader should take responsibility in crunch time make or miss that is why I say Derrick Rose is a better winner then Lebron James.

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