This topic contains 22 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Lotto Stud 9 years, 6 months ago.
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- Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 5:02am #57919
jaycee24ParticipantLately I’ve been obsessing over the thought of a team going with 2 PG backcourt. My feeling is that it can work and work very effectively but it would take a very specific personell. My question for the forum is can a team with a 2 PG backcourt be champion quality and if so under what circumstances?
Talks of Rondo to PHX made me think if they were to swap Rondo for Bledsoe I think Boston would be successful with a backcourt of EB and Smart. 2 Athletic strong combo guards with vision and defensive abilities. Jeff Green is actually a really good 3 skillset wise for this with his ability to shoot and also mix it up down low. What Boston would need is an elite floor stretcher (think Bosh, Ibaka, Love) at the 4 although you could argue that Sullinger while not elite could be that guy. I think a team like this would want an Athletic center that can rebound run the floor and finish Like a Jordan or McGee or a Drummond type. This is all just a hypothetical scenario I’ve thought of but I’d like to hear what you all think….less get it
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 6:20am #948036
RUDEBOY_Participantalot of coaches would love having 2 starting guards that can shoot,score, pass and create plays for others..fans love becuz it leads to a more exciting brand of basketball..it leads to better ball movement…
the pistons won 2 rings with thomas & dumars..dumars played point full time after thomas retired….monroe & frazier were successful at it and won a ring..
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 6:20am #947899
RUDEBOY_Participantalot of coaches would love having 2 starting guards that can shoot,score, pass and create plays for others..fans love becuz it leads to a more exciting brand of basketball..it leads to better ball movement…
the pistons won 2 rings with thomas & dumars..dumars played point full time after thomas retired….monroe & frazier were successful at it and won a ring..
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 7:17am #948040
tuck243ParticipantEspecially when you have a scoring lead guard… I also would like to see that "too small" or "don’t have a position" stuff gone… If a guy can score then give him a chance…
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 7:17am #947903
tuck243ParticipantEspecially when you have a scoring lead guard… I also would like to see that "too small" or "don’t have a position" stuff gone… If a guy can score then give him a chance…
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 7:42am #948044
RUDEBOY_Participantsome coaches wont do it…becuz some players who can run a team,score and shoot,might not be good defenders or their backcourt lacks the size……
im eager to watch cleveland this season..with 4 great passers in the starting lineup, guys that can handle the ball and pass it,they’re going to be exciting…
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 7:42am #947907
RUDEBOY_Participantsome coaches wont do it…becuz some players who can run a team,score and shoot,might not be good defenders or their backcourt lacks the size……
im eager to watch cleveland this season..with 4 great passers in the starting lineup, guys that can handle the ball and pass it,they’re going to be exciting…
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 8:11am #948046
juves4783Participantif 76ers end up with the #1, would love to see them draft mudiay and team him up with mcw. unfortunately, that tandem would struggle shooting though. defensively though, i think teams would have some problems.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 8:11am #947909
juves4783Participantif 76ers end up with the #1, would love to see them draft mudiay and team him up with mcw. unfortunately, that tandem would struggle shooting though. defensively though, i think teams would have some problems.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 10:01am #948050
ZarathustraParticipant2 PG backcourts means : 2 ballhandlers,playmakers,passers.That brings fluidity on the offensive end but when you look at some teams they have 2 or 3 of those guys without having a 2 PG backcourts.Call them point-forwards or combo guards(Lebron,Stephenson,Hayward etc etc).Maybe you mean having 2 super fast guys with PG skills?These PG backcourts need to be great defenders cause the advantage on the offensive end could be a liability on the defensive end…The debate is there in my opinion.
Tean USA playing with Curry,Irving and Harden as starters is filled with those abilities and that brings some great offense on occasions. 🙂
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 10:01am #947913
ZarathustraParticipant2 PG backcourts means : 2 ballhandlers,playmakers,passers.That brings fluidity on the offensive end but when you look at some teams they have 2 or 3 of those guys without having a 2 PG backcourts.Call them point-forwards or combo guards(Lebron,Stephenson,Hayward etc etc).Maybe you mean having 2 super fast guys with PG skills?These PG backcourts need to be great defenders cause the advantage on the offensive end could be a liability on the defensive end…The debate is there in my opinion.
Tean USA playing with Curry,Irving and Harden as starters is filled with those abilities and that brings some great offense on occasions. 🙂
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 12:20pm #948054
cp5ParticipantA few teams went to the 2 PG backcourt in the playoffs last season, most times in 4th quarter/ critical minutes of playoff games.
Nets: Williams and Livingston
Thunder: Westbrook and Jackson
Clippers: Paul and Collison
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 12:20pm #947917
cp5ParticipantA few teams went to the 2 PG backcourt in the playoffs last season, most times in 4th quarter/ critical minutes of playoff games.
Nets: Williams and Livingston
Thunder: Westbrook and Jackson
Clippers: Paul and Collison
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 12:33pm #948056
Rip255I think you guys are buying into a fad to be honest. I’m going to throw water over your arguements if you don’t mind. All these terms are being thrown around like "better ball movement" & "Improved playmaking".
The top teams last season were Indiana, Miami, San Antonio, OKC, Clippers, Portland & Houston. None of these teams used a 2 PG backcourt.
Phoenix had a good season, but they were a non-playoff team. Now you guys are ignoring decades of coaching strategy for a sample size of 43 games when Bledsoe was healthy.
There is a difference between a 2 PG system, and having a combo guard playing the 2. Having a SG with PG skills (aka Joe Dumars), does mean having a 2 PG system.
Ask Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Jason Kidd whether they felt the need for a second PG on the floor?
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 12:33pm #947919
Rip255I think you guys are buying into a fad to be honest. I’m going to throw water over your arguements if you don’t mind. All these terms are being thrown around like "better ball movement" & "Improved playmaking".
The top teams last season were Indiana, Miami, San Antonio, OKC, Clippers, Portland & Houston. None of these teams used a 2 PG backcourt.
Phoenix had a good season, but they were a non-playoff team. Now you guys are ignoring decades of coaching strategy for a sample size of 43 games when Bledsoe was healthy.
There is a difference between a 2 PG system, and having a combo guard playing the 2. Having a SG with PG skills (aka Joe Dumars), does mean having a 2 PG system.
Ask Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Jason Kidd whether they felt the need for a second PG on the floor?
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 1:53pm #948076
BiggysmallsParticipant2 PGs may not be the best way to describe it but having "multiple shot creators" on the floor is ideal.Indiana had Lance and George who both create and initiate offense.
Miami had Lebron and Wade who were both shot creators.
The Clippers use Paul, Crawford, and Collison and even their offense broke down at times because it was too reliant on pick n roll.
Houston had excellent shot creators in Harden and Parsons, on top of the best C in the game.
Portland has two very good passing perimeter guys in Lillard and Batum.
Obviously these teams don’t need 2 point guards on the floor a lot of the time. But a few years ago, the best teams in the league were teams like Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami who relied far too much on 1 player (Rose, Bryant, Lebron) to either create for themselves or others. It takes too much out of guys if they have to do that every game especially in the playoffs when the defense picks up. Having multiple players who can handle the ball, initiate offense, break down defenses and make decisions is incredibly important. Some teams need to utilize 2 PGs to do that, others have good wings who can do it. There are a lot of 2s and 3s who are stand still shooters or only slashers. Having guys who threaten the defense opens up the floor and stresses teams soooo much more.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 1:53pm #947939
BiggysmallsParticipant2 PGs may not be the best way to describe it but having "multiple shot creators" on the floor is ideal.Indiana had Lance and George who both create and initiate offense.
Miami had Lebron and Wade who were both shot creators.
The Clippers use Paul, Crawford, and Collison and even their offense broke down at times because it was too reliant on pick n roll.
Houston had excellent shot creators in Harden and Parsons, on top of the best C in the game.
Portland has two very good passing perimeter guys in Lillard and Batum.
Obviously these teams don’t need 2 point guards on the floor a lot of the time. But a few years ago, the best teams in the league were teams like Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami who relied far too much on 1 player (Rose, Bryant, Lebron) to either create for themselves or others. It takes too much out of guys if they have to do that every game especially in the playoffs when the defense picks up. Having multiple players who can handle the ball, initiate offense, break down defenses and make decisions is incredibly important. Some teams need to utilize 2 PGs to do that, others have good wings who can do it. There are a lot of 2s and 3s who are stand still shooters or only slashers. Having guys who threaten the defense opens up the floor and stresses teams soooo much more.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 2:20pm #948084
JoeWolf1I’m glad RUDEBOY brought some history into this post because there was a lot more of these type of lineups 20 years ago. The role of the shooting guard has kind of shifted, and as a result, SG’s are dishing out fewer assists, and I think a two point lineup could really work. I was a huge fan of what Pheonix did with Dragic and Bledsoe, but then again Jeff Hornacek was a shooting guard dishing out 4.5+ assists NEXT to John Stockton.
During the 2013-14 season there were just a few shooting guards who dished out over 5 apg.
Gordon Hayward – 5.2 apg ,Monta Ellis – 5.7 apg, James Harden – 6.1 apg, and if you count Dragic as a 2 from when he played next to Bledsoe, then he came in at 5.9 per game.
Look at 20 years ago during the 93-94 season, and see how many shooting guards were pretty high level distributers in their own right…I’ll start with Hornacek.
Jeff Hornacek – 5.2 apg, John Starks – 5.9 apg, Vernon Maxwell – 5.1 apg, Chris Mullin – 5.1 apg, Terry Porter – 5.2 apg ( Played next to Rod Strickland most of that season), Penny Hardaway – 6.6 apg ( Played next to Scott Skiles most of the season), Steve Smith – 5.1 apg.
This was also during Jordan’s retirement, and he averaged 5.5 the year before, and 5.3 when he returned in 94-95.
Just to help illustrate that this isn’t an old concept, two guards were generally a little more well rounded in the game 20 years ago and you’ll see there are a few guys that many of you know as points playing in two guard lineups. As I was doing the research there were also at least 7-10 more SGs averaging in the 4-4.9 apg range on the year.
The NBA has shifted away from this kind of play, but I certainly think there is room for more two point or two combo guard lineups in today’s league. I very much think that Marcus Smart and Rajon Rondo could exist in the same backcourt, and the same with Trey Burke and Dante Exum a few years down the line. There is a need for shooters, but there’s still a part of me that prefers well rounded ball handlers, and that includes guys at the small forward position too.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 2:20pm #947947
JoeWolf1I’m glad RUDEBOY brought some history into this post because there was a lot more of these type of lineups 20 years ago. The role of the shooting guard has kind of shifted, and as a result, SG’s are dishing out fewer assists, and I think a two point lineup could really work. I was a huge fan of what Pheonix did with Dragic and Bledsoe, but then again Jeff Hornacek was a shooting guard dishing out 4.5+ assists NEXT to John Stockton.
During the 2013-14 season there were just a few shooting guards who dished out over 5 apg.
Gordon Hayward – 5.2 apg ,Monta Ellis – 5.7 apg, James Harden – 6.1 apg, and if you count Dragic as a 2 from when he played next to Bledsoe, then he came in at 5.9 per game.
Look at 20 years ago during the 93-94 season, and see how many shooting guards were pretty high level distributers in their own right…I’ll start with Hornacek.
Jeff Hornacek – 5.2 apg, John Starks – 5.9 apg, Vernon Maxwell – 5.1 apg, Chris Mullin – 5.1 apg, Terry Porter – 5.2 apg ( Played next to Rod Strickland most of that season), Penny Hardaway – 6.6 apg ( Played next to Scott Skiles most of the season), Steve Smith – 5.1 apg.
This was also during Jordan’s retirement, and he averaged 5.5 the year before, and 5.3 when he returned in 94-95.
Just to help illustrate that this isn’t an old concept, two guards were generally a little more well rounded in the game 20 years ago and you’ll see there are a few guys that many of you know as points playing in two guard lineups. As I was doing the research there were also at least 7-10 more SGs averaging in the 4-4.9 apg range on the year.
The NBA has shifted away from this kind of play, but I certainly think there is room for more two point or two combo guard lineups in today’s league. I very much think that Marcus Smart and Rajon Rondo could exist in the same backcourt, and the same with Trey Burke and Dante Exum a few years down the line. There is a need for shooters, but there’s still a part of me that prefers well rounded ball handlers, and that includes guys at the small forward position too.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 3:47pm #948096
Lotto StudParticipantI just may be reaching, but I’ve always wonder why not…
PG – Kyle Lowry
SG – Greivis Vasquez
———–
SF – DeMar DeRozan
PF – Amir Johnson
C – Jonas Valanciunas
0 - Posted on: Thu, 09/04/2014 - 3:47pm #947959
Lotto StudParticipantI just may be reaching, but I’ve always wonder why not…
PG – Kyle Lowry
SG – Greivis Vasquez
———–
SF – DeMar DeRozan
PF – Amir Johnson
C – Jonas Valanciunas
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