Elite Talent on NBA Horizon: Top 10 High School Prospects
By Ian Powers
We saw the most unpredictable NBA Draft in recent memory on Thursday night. Anthony Bennett being selected as the No. 1 overall pick by the Cleveland Cavaliers took everyone by surprise. While this draft may have lacked a true franchise player, the 2014 draft looks to be loaded with potential franchise talents, such as Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker.
We're taking it a step further and looking ahead to the 2015 draft and beyond. We consulted numerous talent evaluators across the country, including our own Frank Burlison (who's also on the McDonald's All American Selection Committee), Joel Francisco, John Stovall, Reggie Rankin of ESPN, and Evan Daniels of Scout.com. Each of them submitted their top-10 pro prospects in high school basketball regardless of class for our third annual edition. This list is fluid and can change from year to year -- and in some cases month to month. After tallying the votes, we present this year's edition of our top-10 high school pro prospects.
1) Ben Simmons, 6-foot-9, 230 pounds, SF/PF, Melbourne, Australia, Montverde Academy 2015.
Simmons took the U.S. high school basketball scene by storm, dominating the 2012 Pangos All American Camp. He moved to the United States this past year to suit up for coach Kevin Boyle at Montverde Academy in Florida and did not disappoint, helping them win the high school national championship.
He has small forward skills in a power forward's body. A smooth and skilled lefty who can do everything on the floor, Simmons has a feathery outside shooting touch and he can put the ball on the floor and get into the lane when he wants to. His passing ability for a kid his size sets him apart from his peers.
With upperclassmen such as Kasey Hill, and D'Angelo Russell, Simmons took a backseat on a senior-led Montverde team this past season, but he will be the focal point offensively, which should allow him to grow into the alpha dog role that his talent suggests. If he stays focused and continues to work hard, he has a chance to be special. NBA Comparison: Tracy McGrady
2) Myles Turner, 6-foot-11, 225 pounds, PF/C, Euless, TX, Trinity 2014.
In 2010, we saw Anthony Davis turn himself from an unknown prospect into the best player in the country. In 2012, Marcus Lee rose from obscurity to become a McDonald's All American and a member of Kentucky's vaunted 2013 recruiting class. This year, meet Myles Turner.
After sitting out all of last summer with a broken ankle, he has emerged as the one of the top-five players in the country and he has a chance to end up being ranked No. 1 in the 2014 class when all is said and done. He is a highly skilled big who can dominate a game on the defensive end of the floor and score from all three levels on the offensive end. He is long, runs the floor well, has great hands and is an adept passer out of the post. He has range on his jumper out to 20 feet, along with a developing back-to-the-basket game.
Turner is just scratching the surface of his immense upside, having turned 17 in March. It is possible that he will pass the 7-foot mark, due to his size-21 feet. By the end of the summer, we may need to revisit this list and move him to No. 1. NBA Comparison: Lamarcus Aldridge
3) Harry Giles, 6-foot-9, 210 pounds, SF/PF, Winston-Salem, NC, Wesleyan Christian Academy 2016.
Giles has been a household name among recruiting analysts for quite some time. He will go down as one of the most dominant high school players in recent memory. He has an advanced skill set for a player so young -- and he hasn't even come close to reaching his potential. He can handle the ball in the open floor and finish inside.
What makes him special, though, is his sixth sense for the game. He has an advanced basketball IQ that doesn't come along very often among high school prospects. Giles still hasn't become a deadly perimeter shooter, but his form is strong and he just needs reps to iron things out. The one knock against him is a lack of a killer instinct, but that should come with time. Unfortunately, he tore the ACL and MCL in his left knee in Uruguay representing the United States in the Under-16 World Championships and could miss the entire upcoming season. NBA Comparison: Lamar Odom
4) Ivan Rabb, 6-foot-9, 205 pounds, PF, Oakland, CA, Bishop O' Dowd 2015.
Rabb burst onto the scene last summer at the Lebron James Skills Academy and he has not disappointed. He's coming off a sophomore season that saw him average 25 points, 13 rebounds, and eight blocks per game. Rabb is a an elite athlete with the ability to face up and put the ball on the floor. He catches everything thrown to him and can finish with either hand around the basket.
He needs to continue to add to his back-to-the-basket and midrange game. Rabb has added considerable bulk since his freshman year, but he still needs to add weight/strength to his frame as he grows older. He helped lead USA Under-16 team to a gold medal in Uruguay and will be a fixture with the USA Basketball program for years to come. He is a humble and hard-working kid. There is no reason to think that he won't maximize his potential and have a long, productive NBA career. NBA Comparison: Chris Bosh
5) Stephen Zimmerman, 6-foot-11, 215 pounds, PF/C, Las Vegas, NV, Bishop Gorman 2015.
Bigg Zimm, as he is known, is arguably the most skilled big in the country, regardless of class. He is a smooth lefty who can score with his back to the basket, as well as facing up. He has range on his jumper that extends to the college three-point line. He runs the floor very well, catches and finishes in traffic, blocks/alters shots and plays with a nonstop motor.
Zimmerman has trouble holding his position down on the block at times due to a lack of strength, but he is smart enough to adjust and use his quickness for scoring opportunities. Has a tendency to be too left-hand dominant and will need to focus on not being predictable offensively, but all of the tools are there for him to be as good as he wants to be. NBA Comparison: Pau Gasol
6) Emmanuel Mudiay, 6-foot-5, 190 pounds, PG, Arlington, TX, Prime Prep 2014.
Mudiay is in the mold of the big, athletic point guard that we see in the league today. He has a feel for the game that cannot be taught and he has it on display at all times. He makes plays that may not show up in the box score, but they help you win games. He runs the pick and roll at a pro level now. His jumpshot is still a work in progress, but his ability to get in the lane and terrorize his opponents in transition mask his lack of a consistent jumper. His form is good, so he just needs to get the shots up in the gym to refine it.
His athleticism has improved as he's matured physically, making him one of the most athletic point guards in his class. As good as he is now, there is still a ton of upside left. If Mudiay can minimize distractions and keep his turnovers in check, he has a chance to be a franchise point guard at the NBA level. NBA Comparison: John Wall
7) Jahlil Okafor, 6-foot-10, 270 pounds, C, Chicago, IL, Whitney Young 2014.
Okafor has played in the shadow of fellow Chicagoan Jabari Parker over the last few years. That will change this year. He has the best combination of power and skill in the high school game today. He has an array of back-to-the-basket moves and finishes well in traffic. He has huge, soft hands, allowing him to catch and finish anything in his vicinity. In addition, he can counter just about any move a defender tries to take away.
The main knocks on Okafor at this stage of his development are a lack of elite athleticism and foot speed, along with an occasionally suspect motor, average defensive rebounding and his lack of an impact as a shot blocker. This hurts his NBA potential in the eyes of some scouts. With all that being said, he plays to his strengths, having honed those skills to become an elite high school player. He projects as a solid pro down the road. NBA Comparison: Jared Sullinger
8) Tyus Jones, 6-foot-1, 170 pounds, PG, Apple Valley, MN, Apple Valley 2014.
Jones may not possess Mudiay's size or athleticism, but he makes up for it with his feel and IQ for the game. He is the best pure point guard prospect in high school basketball. He took an undermanned Howard Pulley team to the quarterfinals of the Peach Jam last year. This year, he was arguably the best player on the Nike EYBL circuit.
Jones can impact a game without scoring the ball because of his ability to make people better. When he wants to score, he can do it with the best of them. He is not super fast or athletic, but he has a mind for the game we haven't seen on the high school level in quite awhile. NBA Comparison: Kyrie Irving
9) Malik Newman, 6-foot-3, 175 pounds, SG/PG, Jackson, MS, Callaway 2015.
Newman can flat out put the ball in the hole. Whether it's with the drive or the jumpshot, half court or transition, Newman has a knack for scoring. He can score from all three levels, but he excels in the mid range. He can stop and pull up on a dime, while maintaining great balance and lift on his shot. Has a scorer's mentality and thinks every shot is going in. He did a great job running the point for the USA Basketball Under 16 team and seems capable of making the transition if need be. Right now, his best asset is his scoring ability. NBA Comparison; Tyreke Evans
10) Cheick Diallo 6-foot-9, 220 pounds, PF, Centereach, NY 2015.
A late bloomer who similar to Turner has been on a metoric rise over the past 6 months. Was the surprise MVP winner at the NBAPA camp after having an eye opening performance at the Jordan Classic, International game. He's a long, athletic shot blocker with an improving offensive game. A fierce competitor and relentless rebounder.
Diallo appears to be a guy that can develop excellent strength and toughness over time. He also shows nice ability to run the floor. UK and all the other heavyweights are in hot pursuit. NBA Comparison: Serge Ibaka
Deandre Ayton, 6-foot-10, 200 PF/C, San Diego, CA......Could top this list by next year's edition but unfair to put a guy with no HS experience in the top 10. Already 6-foot-10 and is as coordinated and athletic as any big man on any level.
Cliff Alexander 6-foot-9, PF, Chicago, IL……Physically dominant inside presence with a great motor. Strong consideration for one of the top 10 spots but was Edged out by Diallo.
Lonzo Ball 6-foot-4, PG, 2016 Chino Hills, CA…… Maybe best point guard prospect out West.
Thon Maker 7-foot-0, PF, Martinsville, VA....Another Aussie import who got mentions in the recruiting analyst's top 10. Slight frame but very skilled and intense.
Chris McCullough 6-foot-10, PF, Bronx, NY…..Elite athlete who oozes upside.
Justin Jackson 6-foot-7, SF, Houston, TX…….Smooth and skilled scorer who needs to add strength.
A year ago to the day...you released 10 elite high school prospects on the NBA Horizon...
1. Andrew Wiggins
2. Julius Randle
3. Jabari Parker
4. Aaron Gordon
5. James Young
6. Andrew Harrison
7. Kuran Iverson
8. Kasey Hill
9. Jahlil Okafor
10. Clifton Alexander
Chris Walker, Emmanuel Mudiay, Stephen Zimmerman, Noah Vonleh, Aaron Harrison, Karl Towns, Diamond Stone, Ben Simmons, Jermaine Lawrence, Thon Maker.
Really have no problem with your list...except a couple things...
(1) Myles Turner is definitely a beast...and he very well may indeed be the better bigman down the road than Jahlil Okafor...but Jahlil is absolutely crushing it at the U19 World Championships right now...and might be slightly underrated on this list.
(2) Thon Maker was an honorable mention last year...since then...it seems like NBA Draft Net completely fell off the bandwagon. Kid has held his own in EVERY major event he's played in: Jordan Brand Classic, EYBL, Pangos All-American Camp, Nike Top 100 Camp, etc, etc....I mean..ya he needs to gain weight....ya I'm sure you question his age...but what more does he need to do? He definitely has more potential than Lonzo Ball...who struggled at USA U16 National Team tryouts. Don't get me wrong, Ball can play...I think he's top 25 in c/o 2016....but more potential than a skilled 7 footer? Hmmmm NO
(3) Ivan Rabb - Chris Bosh comparison is OK...but Bosh doesn't play in the paint anymore...shoots strictly jumpers. Ivan is not a stretch 4 (yet). He can stroke it for sure, but his game is around the basket right now...plus he's way more of a beast defensively than Bosh.
Anyways...all in all a pretty solid article...nice job!
I don't get the Tyreke Evans comparison for Malik Newman. Newman is undersized for a SG standing at 6'3 and Evans is a little tall for a combo guard at 6'7. Malik Newman can really shoot from the outside and Evans struggles with his jumpshot has a bad outside shot for his position but I get how they are both get to the basket type of players. I think Bradley Beal would be a better comparison for Malik Newman.
I don't think Reke has ever been 6'7, correct me if I'm wrong. 6'4 barefoot, he could have grown, I suppose.
I'm mad they didn't talk about Isaiah Whitehead maybe I'm a little biased because he's from NY but he's a 6'5 strong bodied combo guard who can get to the hole and shoot the ball working on his PG skills but he will be a good player down the road he should be on this list
Tyreke is about 6'5" and the comparison is based on their ability to score the ball. Newman does shoot it better, but he doesn't shoot the ball as well as Brad Beal and gets to the basket better
I think Chris McCullough should be top 10 High school Nba potential kids.
Simmons looks like a nice player, but I'm not blown away by his skill level, especially when it comes to his ability to score. His jump shot is ugly IMO. He slings the ball sometimes from the opposite side of his face. His release point is inconsistent His handle is good for a PF, not great for a SF. He's long, good not great athlete, but I think his best skill offensively is his passing ability.
I'd have him much further down this list.
The T-Mac comparison is strange to say the least since his skill set reminds me more of a skilled 4 than it does a skilled 3 or 2.
I also agree that the Newman/Tyreke comparison is strange because Newman can already shoot. He does not possess the size, physical strength or length that Tyreke had at the same stage. I think he's close to an OJ Mayo. He didn't run much point for the U16 team either. I think OJ Mayo would be a better comparison unless Newman grows a couple more inches.
I think if Ayton was a yr older he would've made the list. His combination of frame, coordination, size, length and explosiveness for a kid his age is absolutely scary.
Towns would've easily made my top 10 because of his size, length and skill combination. Okafor might always be the more dominant inside presence, but Towns' post game is coming along and he already impacts the game in more ways than Okafor with his better defense, passing, ability to put the ball on the deck for a big and knock down outside jumpers.
Turner seems to be the flavor of the month (or season) and for good reason too, but 2 seems a little too high for a kid who just burst on to the scene.
Josh Jackson would've made my list, or at least hon mention. Out of all the U16 Team USA perimeter players, I thought he was the most impressive. Smooth athlete who does a little bit of everything. Defends well, creative slasher, can make plays off the bounce. Mentally, he seemed more advanced than his peers as well. I really like his game. Needs to work on his jumpshot though.
Okafor already has height, length and lift over Sullinger. He won't have the same disadvantages as Sully.
Mudiay/Crawford is another strange comparison. Mudiay is a point all the way and is more of a slasher/playmaker and transition player.
Justise Winslow would've at least made my hon mention team: sick all around game, NBA ready body and athleticism. defender, playmaker, pure winner.
Maybe Stanley Johnson too for a lot of the same reasons as Winslow.
thon maker should really be on this list, and in the top 5. he already has a better offensive skill set than myles turner, his length is insane, and he is a nightmare on defense. all he needs to do is add weight and improve his back to the basket game a little. he is going to redefine the center position when he is in college. also I don't think your high enough on jahlil, he is a monster down low, and the few times he can't get his, he is an unselfish player that hits the open man. one more thing, the person above is right on the malik newman comparison, that is way off. tyreke evens is a lot bigger and stronger player than newman. newman reminds me a lot of monte ellis.
I like the Zimmerman comparison though, I think that is very accurate.
The two comps I had for Newman were Ellis and Evans. My reasoning for going with Evans was that I think Newman eventually outgrow Ellis physically and be closer to Evans in size. Evans is currently stronger than Newman, but Evans is a grown man and Newman is 16 years old. Maker offensive skill set is not better than Turner's. There is not a big in the country who can shoot the ball with the range Turner does with the possible exception of Towns. You said Maker's back to the basket game needs improving as well as Turner's so your notion that he's somehow more advanced than Turner doesn't quite add up.
You guys have to keep in mind that we had 5 different guys submit list to us and none of them had Stanley Johnson or Justise Winslow on their list. Okafor's lift is not that significant over Sullinger's where there is a major difference and he's only an inch taller than Sullinger as Sullinger measured 6'9' in shoes at last year's draft combine. Again Towns didn't appear on every list submitted to us. His average foot speed and lack of athleticism are red flags going forward and take away from his pro potential. Players are different, every comp will not be perfect or identical, so please stop nitpicking every single piece of these articles.
ESPN Analyst Dave Telep was at the USA Basketall 16 and Under trials and he wrote about Newman's ability to move over to the 1 and shed his label as just a scorer Siggy
Okafor looks to be more agile than Sullinger, especially when you compare them moving in space. Not only was Sully a below the rim player, but he doesn't nearly have the extension to make up for his lack of lift, which is why he felt the need to expand his range.
Okafor has an inch or 2 in height, better agility and 2 inches in length. That's a pretty big difference.
That's fine. I'm just saying I would include at least Winslow on my list. His body and frame are NBA ready. His mental game is advanced for his age. He's efficient, is a superb athlete, aggressive on the boards, defends well, has defensive versatility, is unselfish can make plays off the bounce. I tend to favor all-around players who can impact the game in a number of ways. I also tend to favor players who look like they can think the game at this early stage of their development. Mentally, in terms of all-around skill, effort, competitiveness, other intangibles to go along with plus physical tools? Both Winslow and S.Johnson check a lot of boxes that I love to see in players. Those are the same boxes that guys like Marcus Smart checks.
I put a lot of stock in Nat'l team competition. For Winslow to not only be invited as a 17 y/o to compete for a roster spot, but to make the team, beating out more established players and being a key contributor to the U19 team says a lot about what coaches think of his game.
I respect your opinion, but it defeats the purpose of asking guys to give us a list and include people who weren't on any list. IIf that's the case we could just make our own list and not ask anybody else. We didn't include them because they received no votes.
He still didn't run a whole lot of point for the U16 team. First was Woods, then Ramsey and even Jayson Tatum ran point as well.
I'm sure he'll try to make the transition, in fact he has already started since he knows his size isn't great for the 2, neither is his length (measured with a 6'4.5 wingspan). He attended the Nike Skills camp for PGs, so he's headed that direction, but as of now he's a score first, second and third.
maker is better at taking people off the dribble, he is a better athlete, he may not have as much range on his jumper as turner, but when turner gets to college an the nba he is not going to be shooting threes, he will be working from about 18 feet. also, I think thons back to the basket game is better than turners, he is also younger. thon had a monster freshman year, and people are high on turner because of ONE camp outing. he did not put up anywhere near the numbers last year that thon put up, and hes older than thon. id say advantage thon maker.
tyreke in high school could get other players involved very well as well as score for himself, malik pretty much scores and that's it.
Thon's back to the basket game doesn't really exist until he's able to establish and hold his position down there. Adding weight could be a HUGE hurdle for him with that frame.
Tyreke was a huge ballhog in HS. One of the worst I've ever seen.
I think that's where the negative comparisons with Tyreke begin.
At least Malik is more economic with his touches. He doesn't play with the ball nearly as much as HS Tyreke. He's pretty decisive, it's just that his quick decision is usually to try to score.
tyreke played pg in high school, and his rookie year in the nba. they would not have let him play pg in high school if he was a ball hog.
None of what you said is accurate. I have no problem with people's commentary, but at the very least be accurate with what you say. Turner has not blown up on One camp outing. That may be all you know of so you need to limit what you say about that because you don't have a full understanding. Turner has been seen all spring at Real Deal on the Rock, Jayhawk Invitational, Under Armour Invitational, NBA Top 100 cAMP, and last week at the Amare Stoudemire Skills Academy. We actually saw him 2 years ago in Las Vegas and liked his potential. Turner will be able to shoot the ball out to three in the NBA. Rasheed Wallace did it as well as Derrick Coleman. Thon's age is up for much debate so until you can produce documentation on Thon's age I suggest you leave that alone. His frame is not close to Turner's right now. People who evaluate these kids like myself travel the country and watch these kids at multiple events. I doubt you have been to a quarter of the events we go to. Most of what you say is more than likely is made up of a collection of youtube clips you have watched. Turner averaged 16ppg 13rpg and 8bpg last season on a team that has no one else that would even get a low major Division 1 scholarship. If you want to put together your own list and find somebody to put it up I welcome you to do so.
then why was he a lot, and I mean a lot lower ranked before that camp. he jumped over 10 spots in many recruiting ranks in a very short amount of time. I have looked him up a lot, and the only camp I have heard people making a huge deal over him at is the nbpa camp. im not saying he was nobody before that camp, just not in most peoples top 25. he was not on this list on YOU wrote last year and thon was. also the site you right for has thon born in febuary of 97. I did not put that on this site. your right I don't have his birth certificate, but im assuming there was some valid info on his age or this site would not have added it.
Yes, Tyreke was one of the worst ballhogs I have ever seen at the HS level. He played an awful brand of basketball. Talented? Yes. Extraordinarily ball-dominant ballhog? Yes.
He wasn't ranked as high until after the NBA Camp is because recriuting sites have certain time frames when they update their rankings. They don't do it every week or every month. All of the sites do updates in June after the NBA Camp heading into July and then update again after July. You have not looked him up a lot because if you had you would have found that Turner has been written about all sping. I listed the events that he has been at where he was written about dating all the way back to April when Reggie Rankin of ESPN saw him at the Ice Breaker in Houston, John Stovall wrote about him on ESPN from Arkansas. Reggie Rankin wrote about him on ESPN again from Minnesota in April. I wrote about him here in April from the Jayhawk Invitational as did Brain Snow from Scout.com and Eric Bossi at Rivals.com. Evan Daniels from Scout.com and Dave Telep from ESPN wrote about him at the Under Armour Invitational in Dallas and everybody wrote about him from the NBA Camp in June and then that's when the rankings were updated. So again you obviously have not looked him up if you missed all of that. You're trying to make a point based on not knowing what you're talking about. For the last time I wrote this piece last year based on lists given to me by OTHER analyst from around the country. I thought I explained this to Siggy in an earlier post. This list is not made up primarily by us and Thon only made honorable mention last year, so it's not like he was in the top 10 and dropped out. If you read the article, you would plainly see that Turner didn't play on the circuit last summer because of a broken ankle, that's why he wasn't on THIS list that I wrote last year.
sounds like a bunch of excuses your making to validate a point that's not there. you have your opinion and I have mine. I expressed my opinion about this earlier on this page, its my opinion. I said I agreed with you on the Zimmerman comparison, and I don't agree that turner is better than thon. turner is an intriguing prospect with a lot of upside, I just think thon is a world class talent with a incredible skill set at 16, your the one who tried to tell me not to voice my opinion on turner and im gonna anyway because you made a post and that's what these things are for, to debate this. do me a favor and don't try and tell me what to say and think and ill grant you the same. your gonna have people who disagree, im one of them.
You're reading comprehension isn't the greatest is it ? You making the claim that Turner moved up in the rankings based on one camp is not true, especially when I just gave you every event since April where he was featured on different sites. That's not a matter of opinion, that's what actually happened. Every site updated their rankings after the NBA camp, that's why it seems to an uninformed person like yourself that it was just based on that one event. What you don't realize and you would if you did this for a living is that all sites update their rankings after the NBA Camp because it's the last major event until July starts. No scout will bump a kid up that high before they have seen him multiple times at multiple stops. For the life of me, I don't get what's so hard for you to understand about that. If you would take the time to look it up yourself, you will see that you are as wrong as 2 left shoes. I'll say this one last time and maybe it will sink in. 5 different scouts sent in lists. Thon was not mentioned on enough lists to crack the top 10. The other guys were mentioned more than he was, and in most cases they were on all the lists, that's how we came up with the top 10. if you have an issue, talk to those 5 other guys about it.
Please explain to me what excuse I made about anything
Simmons has only been seen on one major event where he could be evaluated in the US. That is the Adidas Nations. His body of work is based on Pangos (all star camp), Jordan Brand Classic (all star game), a few games on TV with a seasoned team he joined. Then he runs back to Australia and missed the whole spring and summer circuit. He doesnt play in the world championships where we could really get a sense of his talent at this stage. Maker and Turner are here in the war. I can respect your take on Turner because you validate it with all the events that you have seen him in. I would love to see Simmons in the EYBL. That is a body of work you can truly judge a player by. Maker not even in your top ten. Glad to see your panel is smarter than ESPN, the NBPA top 100, and the LBJ camp he is going to this week. Last guy they said was too skinny and could not bench 185lb is at OKC and killing it. The age question is out because Maker is doing work against juniors and seniors.
why don't you post an article on one opinion, like your own, and not a poll you got dude. your article sucks and your a goof. you can't tell me how to think or what to write, you can think im as uneducated about this as you want, but your really PMSing because I have a different opinion an you can't deal with it. its laughable. thon has been hyped more than turner and while turner is a great looking player, I still think thon is better and your never gonna change that. if you don't like it then please by all means do your best to get aran to kick me off the site, but I dought it will happen. you started this attack crap because I disagree with what you wrote. your not the end all be all authority on basketball.
this guy had mudiay compared to jamal Crawford yesterday, and because someone told him it was off now he has mudiay compared to john wall. funny stuff. he quickly changes it to still seem knowledgable about this stuff.
Yet another sign of how ignorant you are. If you know Aran is the president of the company, you should also know that he has the final say on anything that goes up on this site. I didn't make the Jamal Crawford comparison and I asked him to change it because I didn't think it was accurate. Lol, you are hilarious, you think you know so much, but you know nothing.
I originally had Mudiay compared to Derrick Rose. Aran and I had a disagreement on that comparison and that's when Jamal Crawford's name came up. You should stop while you're ahead because you haven't said a thing yet that has been true in all 50 posts you have written.
Doubt isn't spelled dought genius
Im still laughing at you Ian powers. Your one of these guys who can't take being criticized. It's funny you post something someone disagrees and you try to rip into them. Your obviously very insecure and your a goof. I'm done on this page.
I can take being criticized when it's legit. You have criticized me for writing an article that was based on the opinions of other peole. If i had written this piece without any outside influence then it's all on me, but that's not the case in this situation. Furthermore, you started the critique by trying tell me that Turner blew up based on one camp and all I did was simply point out to you that Turner has been seen multiple times and you wouldn't leave it alone because you have a crush on Thon Maker,which is fine, but don't try to make everybody fall in love with the same person you do. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I can take being criticized when it's legit. You have criticized me for writing an article that was based on the opinions of other people. If i had written this piece without any outside influence then it's all on me, but that's not the case in this situation. Furthermore, you started the critique by trying to tell me that Turner blew up based on one camp and all I did was simply point out to you that Turner has been seen multiple times and you wouldn't leave it alone because you have a crush on Thon Maker,which is fine, but don't try to make everybody fall in love with the same person you do. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
You come off as an idiot and a troll. Stay in school kid.
"Maker and Turner are here in the war." -- andyandrews
Really Andy? As someone who served 1999-2009, I take great offense. Playing a little hoops is not being in the war. It's a disgusting analogy, and one that needs to be retired from our vernacular.
You, and anyone else, are more than welcome to enlist and find out for yourself, however, if you really think playing hoops is being "in the war."
Using the word war as an analogy in society is prevalent, especially in sports. You must take offense to ESPN especially during football season. I don't pretend for a minute to understand what happened to you over there but you are home now and can relax.
To avoid a "war of words", I will rephrase the sentence.
Maker and Turner are here in the battle, the thick of things, the mix...while Simmons is home. Furthermore on the topic of Simmons, how is he even ranked higher that proven guys like Okafor, Mudiay, or Newman. These guys have a body of work that an educated analysis can be made from. Newman was great for USA basketball and is a State champion over a whole season. Okafor and Mudiay played full high school seasons and national schedules for top ranked teams and were arguably the best players on their teams. I would have liked to see Simmons, like Justice Winslow, playing in the U19's world championship where Australia with Dante Exum just lost to the USA by about 40!
Andy this list is not a list based on accomplishments. Winning a state title or making an Under 19 team has nothing to do with how good of a pro prospect a kid is. Charles Barkley was cut from the 1984 Olympic team and he was a much better pro than most of the guys that made the team. This isn't about resume. Robert Horry has a great resume in terms of winning championships, but does that make him a better player than somebody with less rings ? State titles and USA teams is irrelevant in this case.
I get the impression that maybe people have bad reading comprehension because of some of the complaints made about this list. Some of the arguments I get for why somebody should be on the list are way off base.
It is in my humble opinion that the following criteria, in no particular order nor by any extent complete, are important in determining pro potential:
1. Winning in and against tough competition consistently
2. Accomplisments and accolades against tough competition
3. Skill set, acumen and height at your position
4. Age and ceiling. In the case of Simmons vs Winslow, both are 17 but in different classes and only about 4 month separate the 2. Ceiling can also be based on how long you have been playing the game and progress you demonstrate.
5. Athleticism: speed, lateral quickness, vertical leap and explosiveness.
I think the great ones like Michael, LeBron, Kobe, Magic embodied these traits, sought and experienced winning against the best at a young age. I just remember the recent article about Darko and his 1 workout wonder.
It is early and the list is a compilation of various experts.
I believe both Barkley and Horry were not HS players at the stage that you refer to them.
Those are your criteria, Andy. YOUR criteria, not the criteria or views of this site
Just out of curiosity so when I read such articles on this site, what is your criteria? I don't want to post unnecessarily and be off base with my comments.
Again, just like I had to tell JW earlier. This list was tabulated based on the number of votes received on each of the 5 analyst list. I don't get for the life of me what is so hard for you or anybody else to understand about that. I don't care who is #1 or #10 neither does anybody affiliated with this site. The criteria for this ONE particular article should be self explanatory. We asked the analyst to list who they thought had the most pro potential and they made their lists based on ABILITY. I know Barkley and Horry weren't in high school, but in your need to sound clever and make me sound clueless you completely missed the point. You made the statement that state championships and making USA teams should be a criteria, or winning against tough competition consistently as you put it when less talented guys win more and make more USA teams all of the time. Robert Horry has more rings than Jordan, does that make him a better player because he did ? No. USA teams are constructed on need. There are a number of cases where a more talented guy was kept off of a team because he didn't fill a specific need. Devearl Ramsey made the 16 and under team this year over Lonzo Ball. Anybody will tell you that Ball is a better player, but Ramsey's ability to pick up full court and be a defensive stopper filled a need for the team and they kept him over Ball. Ball is a great talent that can score and facilitate, but they had guys like Malik Newman and Jayson Tatum that could do that. Your argument is off base because playing on a better team and winning more doesn't make you more talented than a guy whose team is not as good and wins less. This list is not a career achievement list.
What is the point of having these comment sections if we aren't allowed to voice our opinion? I fully understand that this list is based on number of votes received from 5 analysts, but does that mean we have to 100% agree with it?
Never said you had to agree with it 100%, but 1) have a valid argument and 2) don't kill the messenger
You and the war veteran need to relax. If questions are asked it is not an attack and the comments I have made are based on the above article and your subsequent posts. Here are some points that may assist you in comprehending the validity of the comments:
1. You never said "Ability" was the criteria used in forming this list when you wrote the article.
2. You also claimed one of the evaluators was your "own Frank Burlison". You also then commented that my criteria is "not the criteria or view of this site". That led me to believe that the site did have a criteria which you eventually stated was "ability".
3. Ability is vague and not self explanatory in this case because you have not provided a set of criteria that equates to what you constitute as ability. A criteria or set of criteria would therefore be used to project the ability of your subjects. You are to be blamed because you could have simply stated "We used the following criteria to determine the ability of the players and based on these criteria these are the best pro prospects". I am sure the 5 opinions you used from 3 different sources (even though you used the words "numerous" and "including " in your second paragraph to con the reader into believing your research was extensive when it was not) have a list of criteria they use in making their selections.
4. You use the tail end of the distribution curve when arguing against my criteria of competitive vigor, winning, achievement, and consistency in battle. Of course less talented kid make "teams" but we are discussing "individuals" who are talented.
5. The list is a "career achievement list" because in your above arguments for Myles Turner you point to his achievements over a span of time. I have never used the term career achievement because it should be applied to players like Barkley and Horry. That is why I say accomplishments and accolades and I do not compare HS kids to Pros in this instance..
You have forced me into lecture mode because you have been rude and adopted a defensive posture when legitimate questions arise. You have even ventured to call people ignorant. You should take more care in reading what you write before being dismissive.